rattler14
Forum Replies Created
BOBT12,
Certainly, one wants to expose all the corruption to keep building up the case file and show doubters mountains of evidence. But I tend to show the minute details only after going after the main and easy to prove arguments. Basically, if you tell someone that the CIA could've taken out Atta a year or two prior. That's good and some will care, but it's wishy washy and cannot be truly proven unless we accept the legitimacy of the governments documents. Show them a picture of the pentagon hit and a plane superimposed on top of it (clearly showing that the wings reached out 30-40 feet on each side of the whole and cause NO damage to the facade), and even a 10 year old can understand it.
But anyway, keep up the good work.
Here is another link to pique your interest
http://wingtv.net/thornarticles/911passengerlist.html
Most of the “passangers” that died on the planes are not even listed in the social security death index. I won't spoil anymore, but give it a read. This information is all verifiable by the governments own records. They would be quite stupid not to list the deaths in the database, but they haven't. What gives?
cheers
- BOBT12 wrote on Sep 16 2005, 04:18 PM:Here is something that I picked up on the news this morning:Quote:[Weldon said]Atah was identified as a terrorist in 1999. Atah was the mastermine of the attack. The employee expected to name the the person at the Pentagon who order him to destroy the material. Weldon claims Atah, and three other hijackers, were identified in 1999 by a classified millatary intelligence until know as “Able Danger” which determine that they could be members on an Al-Qaida cell.
Ed Donahue, Washington.
KYW News Radio
9/16/2005 7:39 a.m.
I believe that Weldon is scheduled to testify at some hearing next week.
[post=”1748″][/post]BOBT12,
I hate to burst your bubble, but the whole focus on Atah is a red herring, a distraction from the real issues. Once you realize that some of the Hijackers are still alive, once you realize that tower 7 was proof of a controlled demolition, once you realize that what hit the pentagon couldn't possibly have been a boeing plane, then issues like this are insignificant.
Because, who cares if the “terrorist” really intended on doing something malicious. If you prove that the government had some knowledge or even helped, then this matter will sort itself out in the end.
In the tax honesty movement, it's the equivalent of arguing that the 16th amendment was never properly ratified. True or not, it doesn't matter because it was later confirmed that the 16th amendment gave no new taxing powers (and so on).
cheers
1 more links to those interested…
http://www.boulderweekly.com/archive/090805/coverstory.html
Morgan Reynolds calling forth a new investigation… appealing to those who support the government's side to prove it with forensics
Again, there is a whole lot of information out there, and only so many hours in the week. It's more important to learn the basics and get the word out than to read 10 books and 1000 pages of online text, and keep all that knowledge hidden in your noggin.
It's probably the exact opposite with the income tax. You want to make sure you know everything cold and being to recite USC cites and court cases on a moments notice to government officials.
Take care everyone
- Sonik Speed wrote on Sep 13 2005, 06:47 PM:RATTER
I want your full opinion on Hendrickson.
You'll get nothing and like it!!! 🙂
Sorry, quote from Caddyshack.
I'm hosed right now with work, but I'll get back to you later this week. I thought I was pretty clear in my previous post, but apparently not.
I do have to ask, is this a point worth pursuing? I've already stated that I think his work is flawed legally and is merely their to give a “short cut” approach for people that don't have or wont' take the time to become a law scholar for themselves. Certainly, this is VERY dangerous. However, again, everyone in the tax honesty movement is being hunted down by these sharks, regardless of how amazing their legal arguments are.
And to address your big question. As for asking for a proof that the DOJ agrees with his work. I can't find proof and will assume that it doesn't exist. I think if there was documentation that they did, this whole tax fraud would be a heck of a lot easier to remove from here wouldn't you say?
If that isn't a good enough answer for ya Sonik, I don't know what to say. We know each others side thoroughly and only seem to be debating whether or not his flawed process is good or bad for the movement. You state that anything besides bonafide 100% bulletproof legal arguments are bad bad bad. I agree with you in theory if our courts cared. Most don't know the difference between a good and bad legal argument anyway, so you're gonna get persecuted even if you know every right you have. Waive your constitution in front of the judges face. Maybe it'll make a difference and give you the edge you need. Most likely, you won't be allowed to speak and you'll be claimed “frivilous”. I'm not discouraging trying anyway. Hence, why I still support other factions in the Tax Honesty Movement. And whether or not they hurt or help, there is no scientific or statistical way to give you or me merit to our beliefs.
As rodney king said… can't we all just get along? 🙂
Let's move on, this is becoming a pissing contest that isn't proving anything.
For further inspiration… from 2 days ago
http://wingtv.net/thornarticles/paulisaac.html
Quote:On the morning of September 11, 2005, New York City auxiliary fire lieutenant Paul Isaac, Jr. admitted yet again that 9-11 was an inside job. In fact, here is his exact quote to Lisa Guliani and myself: ?I know 9-11 was an inside job, the police know it?s an inside job, and the firemen know it too.?and
Quote:Last but not least, researcher Vincent Sammartino, who was also in attendance at the WTC 'open grave site' on the afternoon of September 11, 2005, wrote the following on APFN: “I just got back from Ground Zero. People know the truth! Half of the police and firemen were coming up to us and telling us that they know that 911 was an inside job. They were told not to talk about it. But they were supporting what we were doing!!!!! I had tears in my eyes.”Finally, the broadcast in which they describe how their information was received at ground zero 2 days ago (the 4th anniversary of 9/11)
http://wingtv.net/todaysshow/091205.rm
powerful stuff folks
cheers
- Bing wrote on Sep 13 2005, 06:39 AM:Rattler14, if you have time, please post all the url links that you can.
This stuff is very important and proves the lengths to which the incredibly corrupt USG Employees will go to satisfy their greed.
Bing
[post=”1722″][/post]No problem Bing.
First off, I must mention that one cannot let emotions get the best of them when thinking about these things. You must always be able to discern from irrefutable facts, facts that make logical sense but cannot be proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, and speculation. The problem with the 9/11 truth movement is that everyone spouts off all these “facts” when some of them are not. Opposition then takes these weak arguments and tries to belittle the entire argument because of that. Just like arguing about the income tax, you have to make sure you're well versed and not pushing handy waving arguments.
Onward with the links
As stated, Morgan Reynolds created a very powerful overview just a few months ago
http://www.lewrockwell.com/reynolds/reynolds12.html
In terms of research groups, these are probably the best and free of misinformation
http://team8plus.org/news.php (but this last one pushes the conjecture on certain things.)
I state again. Do not blindly accept what you read. Question the questioners as well and you'll understand that most of their arguments are sound and blow the government's story so full of holes that you might as well call it “the swiss cheese theory” 🙂
By far, the best video you can get that you can show to doubters/newbies is “loose change”. A free 20 minute preview can be seen here
http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/july2…ddemolition.htm
NOTE. The hosting website, prison planet, while usually factual and full of good information, is generally a “the sky might be falling” type of website. So yes, things are bad and scary, but it's not that bad… yet.
For someone who wants the gory details and is willing to sacrifice a little bit in terms of production quality, Painful Deceptions by Eric Hufschmid is a far more detailed DVD. It's also quite dry. But the facts are all there and it basically shows there is no way this is possible
For the mother of all questions/linked lists… try here
http://whatreallyhappened.com/9-11BasicQuestions
Lastly, here's my personal plug for an article I wrote.
http://hammeroftruth.com/2005/09/10/911-qu…a-wont-address/
These movements of government corruption can work together to fight a common foe, much like the givemeliberty.org organization does. Be it income taxes, the federal reserve fraud, waco, 9/11, the UN, whatever… we are all fighting the globalists that want to take this country down.
spread the facts, not conjecture, and we'll win this in time.
cheers
- Quote:Ok great I understand now.
But I am still requesting answers from Ichesson, Fiddo, BOBT whom I still have yet to hear. Suddenly they have disappeared!
I would definitely love to hear ESPECIALLY from Ichesson who actually start this post that has deception in the post.
Please respond…
Sonik Speed
This forum has in general been a little inactive. But I doubt that is because the members themselves are inactive. I've been busy as all heck trying to get the world out about the Great IRS Hoax and the 9-11 deception.
It's a tough battle, but we must press on.
cheers
- Sonik Speed wrote on Sep 11 2005, 07:59 PM:Oh I see…
Ok so in other words, they are smart. They are smart, but they are fools that are smart, which is a contradiction in itself. 😛
Is that a fair statement? Think deeply on that analogy…
[post=”1712″][/post]exactly!
🙂
There's a slogan here @ MIT
SPAMIT
Stupid People @ MIT
Let's face it, some people are so smart that they are actually dumb.
On the other hand, my little brother is a C student, but the kid is sharp.
And back to the point. While it would be nice for everyone to know the truth about everything in this world, people won't. There's just too much information out there (and I'm not making excuses for them, just explaining). Open the papers tomorrow and you'll see people on the left, right, middle, top, and bottom of the political spectrum complaining about how bad Katrina was and everyone has their pet theory as to why. They're all correct, yet mostly dumb as they have no idea why it really occurred and what it really means.
that, is perhaps a better analogy.
cheers 🙂
Sonik,
Perhaps my “support” of the 861 is confusing. Let me clarify.
The legal arguments used by the 861 movement are BUNK in my honest opinion.
However, that still doesn't detract from the fact that they are right “in spirit” that their salary is not taxable.
Obviously, this would not hold up in court, but allow me to explain.
You go up to a person on the street and ask them “Is it OK to murder someone”.
They will certainly answer NO (I'm ignoring circumstances of self defense, etc).
Now, you ask them WHY.
Let's say one person responds “because it would violate a state law”
Another person says “because it would violate one of the basic fundamental concepts of property rights. Murder would be encroachment and destruction of a persons most sacred property” and on and on.
No they are both right? Both wrong? or is one right and is one wrong?
Let's push to the absurd. Let's say someone said “because my mommy said so”. Again, now we have 3 people who know it's not right to kill someone, but have vastly different reasons why that is.
Now please note, I do not advocate using stupid, inane, or ridiculous arguments that some people swear by. But these people are still right “in spirit”, even if their legal justification is not.
Regardless, I'm not trying to bemoan this any longer. I know where you're coming from. I do not wish to lead people to the slaughter house or to leap off the cliff like lemmings. You say they are doing more harm than good. I say they act as stepping stone to the real deal. And on that, we'll have to disagree then.
cheers
“It's better to die on your feet than to live on your knees.” Emiliono Zapata
that's exactly what I was going to reply. Great minds really do think alike eh? 😉
And yes, it should be blatantly obvious to anyone looking at the facts. Here's another quote that I think also shines some light onto why people hold so dearly to the lies.
“I know that most men, including those at ease with problems of the greatest complexity, can seldom accept even the simplest and most obvious truth if it be such as would oblige them to admit the falsity of conclusions which they have delighted in explaining to colleagues, which they have proudly taught to others, and which they have woven, thread by thread, into the fabric of their lives.”
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Leo_Tolstoy
to admit the government is corrupt, requires confronting a horrible truth that many cannot bring themselves to do. that, is the real problem
- Quote:In reading these reply post, I feel that I am being misunderstood. I shall make the best attempt to clarify myself. I believe I was clear enough however.
I am NOT ATTACKING Hendrickson Ad hominem. I am ATTACKING his claim that the DOJ does not think his material is wrong. I demand to see the ACTUAL writing!!! That is precisely my challenge.
Merely posting Social Security checks does not mean JACKSQUAT. For instance, 99% of the author of Family Guardian has legal merits. However, the DOJ still is continuing to pursue, EVEN THOUGH NEARLY EVERYTHING is correct on this website!
Answer accordingly,
Sonik Speed
LOL. Doesn't the DOJ think everyone is wrong?
- JWR wrote on Sep 10 2005, 06:37 PM:Quote:If you could at least drop a small comment of support, I would greatly appreciate it
Done.
JWR
Now my cover is blown too. 😆
[post=”1702″][/post]Doh! well, you could have at least made up a name. I, on the other hand, was the author of the article. I had to reveal 🙂
either way man, if the powers that be really were after me, they've seen my activity. No use hiding now. I'd rather stand tall.
Thanks a ton man, I really appreciate it.
Hey everyone.
I know this blows my cover, but I recently posted an article on the 9/11 controlled demolitions
http://hammeroftruth.com/2005/09/10/911-qu…a-wont-address/
here. The main editor wants to take it down because it's too “conspiracy theory” ish, which I think we can all say is not true. It's a fact.
If you could at least drop a small comment of support, I would greatly appreciate it
again, its
http://hammeroftruth.com/2005/09/10/911-qu…a-wont-address/
cheers
- Sonik Speed wrote on Sep 6 2005, 06:28 PM:Paul Andrew Mitchell is credible. Rattler you said:Quote:I've glossed over Peter's work. And while I'm really glad he's helping to push the movement,
Respectfully I dissent. He is doing more harm than good – much like idiots like Al Thompson.
To Health,
Sonik Speed
[post=”1691″][/post]I'm not upset by Sonik's words. I know what he is getting at. Why preach half the story, which can only get people in serious trouble, rather than going 100%. I agree it's a noble goal. But frankly, some people aren't willing to make the huge jump all at once.
Case in point: Me. I was in the dark, so to speak, about everything. About the IRS, 9/11, and all government cabals. Although I found “The Great IRS Hoax” first, it seemed extreme and “out there”. Movements like the 861 provided an intermediate. Once I realized that 861'ers are correct in spirit but unfounded legally (due, IMHO, to the citizenship confusion, not understanding the definition of “United States” as per the IRC, and using “income” incorrectly). BUT, I find I can use their video as a stepping stone to get others to the real deal.
NOTE: I do not advocate 861 at all. And when I show them the video, I make it clear IN BIG CAPITAL LETTERS that it has legal flaws but is true in spirit. But without that type of hook, it's hard to get to them to even look at the works of Family Guardian and Mitchell.
So Sonik, I agree with you in the sense that I don't want to lead lemmings off a cliff. However, I think the chance of eventually getting them to completely open up their eyes to the real truth is far greater when it's not hitting them in the face all at once. Some want to truth all at once, others are still hooked on the system and will scare too easily.
I know you are a legal guru based on some of your excellent posts. I wish everyone would be as dedicated, but that will not be happening in the foreseeable future IMHO.
cheers, and keep on fighting my good man
- Sonik Speed wrote on Sep 5 2005, 07:50 AM:Friends – I do not mean to be verbally agressive. This is an educational forum for exhanging ideas and truth. But, I must express my anger for just a moment.
The DOJ actually? Believes that this so-called book “Cracking the Code” is completely true? Oh really?? Ok look people – I hate to be very blunt but WHAT EVIDENCE BESIDES HEARSAY HAVE YOU SEEN THAT SUBSTANTIATES THE CLAIMS OF THIS SO-CALLED GURU???
You people need to gather your facts and request from this guy the actual letter that says “You are not wrong”.
Secondly, this tactic using “Checks” to prove they had received all SS tax that were once withheld, is not fully substantiated. Merely posting checks does not prove anything. In order to prove that these are Social Security checks, THIS FELLOW MUST POST HIS ENTIRE ADMINISTRATIVE FILE. Secondly, as far as his “promotion” is concerned, this is a copyright of “commercial speech” something this Hendrickson fellow is practicing.
For those that “love” Hendrickson, PROVE that the DOJ said “You are not wrong” and disclose more information about these alleged – Checks.
I say this respectfully and with no disrespect to anyone, either SHOW YOUR PROOFS OR SHUT YOUR MOUTHS.
Sonik Speed
[post=”1688″][/post]Sonik,
I haven't looked into it enough to really care and I certainly don't advocate something I haven't researched. I've found that the 2 best resources have been this site ('The Great IRS Hoax') and Paul Mitchell's 'The Federal Zone'. Not only because they are so well put together, but because of the thoroughness in their respective analysis of the law. No gimmicks, just the truth.
However, as much as I hate advocating other positions like the faulty 861 movement, I at least sympathize that they are fighting in the right direction and I try my best to get them to understand the real law. Still, they are part of the movement and are at least helping bring awareness.
And before anyone replies “yeah, but they are making us look bad because they lose a bunch”, all I can say is that the government has gone after everyone in every facet of the movement. Corruption doesn't care.
cheers
