[JWR]

Hey TheyLive,

The first one is the regular form DS-11 and the second one is the “modified” version.

http://famguardian.org/TaxFreedom/Forms/Em…ion/DS-0011.pdf

http://famguardian.org/TaxFreedom/Forms/Em…11-Modified.pdf

Hope this helps.

JWR

[JWR]

Apostle, is there a point to this? Just curious as you haven't given any commentary on your reasoning behind this post.

JWR

[JWR]

Hey AmariYah,

Can't say that I have too much experience in this area (though I've had my rounds in “traffic court”) but you might want to check out a book entitled “Adventures in Legal Land” by Marc Stevens (http://www.adventuresinlegalland.com/) . I have the book and planned on rereading it real soon. I would put this on the recommended reading list near the top. I know that weishaupt1776 has used some of the things in it to get some tickets dropped.

There is also Ticket Slayer (http://www.ticketslayer.com/). Don't know anything about it but there are those over at suijuris.net that claim to have used it successfully.

Hope this helps.

JWR

[JWR]

You can find a lot of info on “includes” here http://famguardian.org/TaxFreedom/CitesByTopic/includes.htm

TD 3980 can be found on this linked page, but here's the link directly to it http://famguardian.org/TaxFreedom/CitesByT…udes-TD3980.pdf

Hope this helps.

JWR

[JWR]

OK, this is going back in response to post number 33 by Sonik.

Quote:

1 – If you are claiming Jesus is God, then let me ask a few more followups. Why does Jesus refer to “someone” or “something” as the “Heavenly Father”? Does it suffice to say that He is talking to himself? Jesus also says: “Give God what belongs to God and Caesar what belongs to Caesar.” – Is God and Jesus synonymous in this statement?

Quote:

2 – If God is Jesus, then does this answer of yours not contradict some observations made by some other folks on this posting? Some say that he is NOT GOD, but you say He is God. Both posters, are Christian I am guessing. Therefore, would this mean that there is no “ONE COLLECTIVE FOOT” in Christianity regarding whether Jesus is God or God is Jesus? Please comment…

On this I would add that if God is Jesus and Jesus is God, then why would He, Jesus, when on the cross, yell out “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani! My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” Matthew 27: 46. Was He calling to Himself here?

And the only way I would see both God and Jesus to be “one” would be to have the same purpose or goal, such as the old saying “All for one and one for all”.

Quote:

Ok – I am really stupid then, because I still think that this is a copyright of polytheism. Based on your statements, I can only reasonably conclude that you are taking God, and you are literally FRACTION-izing Him. Really, this is what you are doing. 1/3 God, 1/3 Jesus and 1/3 HS. God is not fractions – God is ONE and the Most Powerful. Secondly, your answer for #6 somewhat conflicts your answers in #1 and #2. I am just trying to use basic logic here. I am using basic logic, because this belief system is not the Internal Revenue Code nor is it Void for Vagueness. Beliefs systems are to be SIMPLE. In questions #1 and #2 you answer that God is Jesus and Jesus is God, but yet in question #6 you state that there are “Three facets” or “three personalities”. But how is this so when we already established that God is Jesus and Jesus is God. Would then this not make the “Triune” God or (g)ods in two a Bi-lateral God or (g)ods, since 2 of the 3 are alrady the same?

Hmmmm. This seems to put a monkey wrench in the “triune God” concept. Now if both God and Jesus are one and the same, meaning one entity, how can there be a “Father, Son, and Holy Spirit” (Father meaning God, Son meaning Jesus, and Holy Spirit meaning ???)?

As Sonik had stated from the outset, pease keep your answers simple. I'm more simple minded than most 🙂 . And if possible keep your answers your answers.

Now, in response to something Apostle had said in post #35 above.

Quote:

I will stand and fight to the death for what is mine. I am willing to die for what is mine. The question is how many of them are willing to die and leave their families fatherless over what is mine?

Please compare this with what he put in post #16.

Quote:

Regarding the things Bryan has written. Do you think he can call them his own? Oh foolish man. We own nothing. All things belong to Yahweh. He gives them to men according to his good pleasure. (Even our thoughts) We are nothing but dirt. We can own nothing. It is the pride of man to think he can “own” anything. Men would like to think that even the actions they take are their own “free will” (another lie of the whore) but there is no such thing.

Can you please explain this seeming contradiction in what you wrote? Not wanting to split hairs here, but it seems kind of hypocritical to me to say at one point that if you take from another (Bryan T. Huie) then we don't own anything, but if someone such as the IRS wants to get something from you, then you'll “fight to the death” for what is yours. And if only God, as you say, can own anything, then are you telling us that you are God? This is the only logical conclusion if no-one can own anything but God and you. So which is it, can we really “own” anything or not? Inquiring minds want to know 😛 .

JWR

[JWR]

I've been falling a bit behind myself there Sonik, but only because I've been pissing off my time. No real reason, just got a bit lazy lately.

Apostle, I'm gonna go back and answer the post by you (post #18). I said I wouldn't get into the discussion between you and Sonik, but I'm refering to your post directed to me, so I see this as an invitation. I accept.

Do you read your Bible? If not then you should have someone point out to you a few examples of what happens to those who deal decietfully with the servants of Yahweh. I will pray that Father will have mercy on him.

If you would have paid attention to my first post I said “Sorry, but I am not one of those that can quote scripture, nor have I picked up a Bible in quite a few years.” I have not actually picked up a Bible in a while. This does not mean that I “deal decietfully with the servants of Yahweh” as you appear to be accusing me of. If you could, please show me where I have done this and will apolagize to those I've dealt decietfully with.

Sonik knows what he did.

What did Sonik do? Catch you being misleading, and possibly “decietful”?

He cared not for discovering the truth. If he did then that is what he would have debated. The content of the material.

I believe Sonik to be a truth seeker and actually likes to debate. He also doesn't seem to mind pointing things out that are amiss.

But because he either couldn't or never had any intention of doing so he resorted to trickery, deceit and showed forth all of the inherent traits of the master he follows and attacked the messenger.

So let me see if I got this right, and please correct me if I'm wrong. You think that because Sonik found the original post that you copy/pasted without quoting the original source and calling you on it that he, Sonik, has “resorted to trickery, deceit and showed forth all of the inherent traits of the master he follows”? And can you please tell us what you mean when you said “the master he follows”. Which “master” would this be?

You speak of “lying by ommision”. Are you saying that everytime Yeshua said “It is written” without quoting the exact source “where it was written” that he was lying? I would hope not because there is something Yeshua as well as all the other true servants of Yahweh understand that the children of darkness cannot seem to grasp.

Yes I do speak of “lying by ommision”. It is something used by those that have something to hide. And no, when Jesus, or Yeshua, said “It is written”, He was refering to the source of this information, where you left what you copy/pasted to be presumed it was written by you in the span of two hours.

Wicked men like to take “credit” for the truth and loudly proclaim that which already is when it was not they who created it nor established it.

What are you trying to say here Apostle 😮 .

On the other hand. Deception, lies, words of art, presumption and all the things that Famguardian.com condemns the government of doing (and rightfully so) are traits of Satan who is the originator of these things.

I'm not too sure how far you've gotten into famguardian.org (not .com as you put) but it goes into much more than just “condemning government”. It also seems to me to do more condemnation of government corruption as opposed to actually making a condemnation of government itself. But there are other very interesting subjects that are covered here, that unfortunately are not discussed much here in the forum.

Don't you think it a bit hypocritical for Sonik to condemn the government for doing these things and then use the exact same tactics with me.

No, because all Sonik did was something most, including me, would not do, and that is to seek the truth. And if that includes calling someone on taking anothers work as their own, then so be it. And to say that Bryan T. Huie did not use a copyright on his work does not, in my opinion, justify not at least giving him credit. Did not Jesus say “It is written” when quoting scripture? I could probably do this too as I never could qoute verses from the Bible.

Has he never heard of entering into a conversation or transaction in “good faith”?

Yes.

Had I known that he was only interested in trapping me in some indiscretion (either real or percieved) I would have been more on my gaurd against it and would have gone to greater lengths to protect myself from him. But I chose to trust that his quest for the truth was sincere and acted accordingly. How did he repay me?

If I know Sonik like I think I do, he is not “interested in trapping” anyone. And his “quest for truth” is sincere. How do you think he found where your post originated from?

Now does it matter where the truth came from or who wrote it? (I speak as a man) No.

First I must thank you for speaking as a man. But I must say, yet again, that the lengthy post you copy/pasted was not actually written by you so should have been credited to the author, Bryan T. Huie, with a link to said post as you eventually thanked Sonik for doing after he posted said link and credited the actual author.

It is the man who tries to claim the truth as his own who is the thief because he is incapable of seeing it or understanding it unless Father shows it to him.

Though you didn't actually claim the work as your own it was presumed it was your work, hence the statement by me on lying by ommision. And only after Sonik doing the research found the original writer and gave the credit where it belongs did you admit it wasn't really you that wrote it.

Just as your friend Sonik they are more interested in the things of this earth like copywrite, possession, credit, profit and a whole manner of things that by their clammering they think they can control….

I'm not too sure you're correct here. Sonik, Bing, Chris, and others, have given freely of their knowlege without asking or wanting anything in return.

There is on the horizon a day coming when your friend will see his Judge and indeed the Judge of all creation.

So shall we all.

Whether it was I that spoke it or Bryan T. Huie that wrote it. It doesn't matter.

Yes it does.

What does matter is that he will understand that he rejected it and just as Yeshua came to the earth and was attacked and crucified by the children of satan because they could not bear to hear the truth….

Maybe you should go back and read your Bible. This is not why He was crucified. Though I haven't picked up a Bible in quite a number of years I don't recall this as the reason why. Please tell me where I can find the passage(s) in the Bible where I can find where He was crucified because “they could not bear to hear the truth”. And yes, I do own a Bible.

…he will know that he has sealed his own fate and richly deserves his place in the lake of fire created for satan and all those who follow him.

Sorry to hear this Sonik. Apostle has already passed judgement on you and your fate seems to be sealed.

He will cry out for mercy and wish he had listened and studied the truth set before him instead of bickering and backbiting over such foolish things as “who was the author” or who “gets the credit” or any number of other things Satan sets before man to distract them from the truth.

Apostle, don't you get it? You were using the work of Bryan T. Huie as your own. You were found out. Now you accuse Sonik of the things you yourself are doing. Is it wrong to give credit to Bryan T. Huie and let us believe it was your hard work in that post? I don't see it as “bickering and backbiting”. I see it as doing your homework. Even Chris has said not to take his word for anything, to go do the research yourself. This is what Sonik has done.

But it will be too late. He will have had his chances and rejected them all. It is a fearful thing to found in the hand of the Living God. And he will find this out. There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Again, Sonik, I'm sorry to hear it's too late for you.

So what it all boils down to is you have misled the forum readers, whether intentionally or not, and when confronted on it have accused Sonik of doing exactly what you have done. This has caused us not to trust you. And of course we have to be suspicious of those we don't know since the IRS and DOJ are sneaky little bas**** and would like to persecute anyone here they can get ahold of. Sonik, Bing and Chris are real good at sniffing these idiots out since, well, I guess because they are idiots. They screw up trying to be “one of the guys”.

Sonik, I'll get back here later since it took a while to post this. About two hours 😆 . I could use a break.

JWR

[JWR]

Apostle, I'm not going to get into the current discussion between you and Sonik, but I have an observation to make. In the post that you had copy/pasted it should have been credited to the author of the original writer and stated as such (including the links to said work as you thanked Sonik for doing). If you've done any study of IRS and other government agencies you should know there is a thing called “lying by ommision”. Since this was not done by you it was “assumed” that you were in fact the original writer. And you say that Sonik should have asked “who authored the work”. Why should he since there was a presumption that it was you? There appears to me to be a bit of deception here.

I haven't gone as in depth as I would have liked to, but I'm on break at work and really do not have the time. Oh, yeah, I still can't type that fast either.

JWR

P.S. For those that don't know yet, If you are going to debate Sonik, come prepared and do your homework first.

[JWR]

Hey Sonik,

I'll try to go through and try to clear up what I can, but keep in mind I'm no Bible scholar. Just someone that has made a few observations without the spin of any particular sect (though you could say I'm biased to my own views 😛 ). I'll take it in the same numerical sequence we have kept.

1) I have a belief there will be a second appearance of Christ, too. Not too sure if He will come back in the same form (as Jesus once looked, though no-one really knows what he looks like). Like you, I don't understand how anyone can accept the Jesus is God notion. Veneration? Yes. Worship as God? No.

2) Ditto on hearing some-one that believes this, and why.

3) Your quote here Sonik, “To this you said that this is (mostly) true. If this is the case, then why is there something called Judaism? Why are the Jews not just calling themselves Christians? ” I think they do not refer to themselves as “Christians” is they do not believe Jesus was the Christ and are still waiting. Though there is a group calling themselves “Jews for Jesus” or something similar.

4)“If it is a known fact that Jesus was a Jew, and since Christians have tremendous amount of faith in Jesus – then why don't Christians consider themselves Jews? Am I missing something? In fact, Jesus did not spread Christianity. It was St. Paul that did.” I don't think you're missing that much here, unless I'm missing the same thing. But I don't think it was Paul that started spreading “Christianity”, just the teachings of Jesus (Christ). Someone can correct me if I am wrong, but I believe a lot of the “Christianity” stuff actually started with Constantine. I'd have to Google it to find out for sure, so don't quote me on that.

5) There have been either perceived or actual contradictions in the Bible but I couldn't give you any without the time to do the research on it. This is why I gave the reply above on this one. But, as you know, it was written by quite a few people over quite a large period of time. Of course there could be some mistakes in it. Then to add in to the equation the numerous different translations, possibly with certain amounts of “interpretation”. A whole lot of room for errors is possible.

6) To get you a decent elaboration I'll just give this link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinity. I had to Google it, sorry. This gives a pretty good overall concept of what some believe the Trinity is. After scanning over it, I'll read it after I post this, I don't think I can buy this concept.

Hey Apostle,

I've been down a rabbit hole or two. Fact is I'm still stuck in one of them. Please feel free to give your opinions and/or insights. And it doesn't matter how deep the rabbit hole goes as long as we can find the end of it while mapping it out along the way.

JWR

[JWR]

Hey Sonik,

Thanks for posting this topic. It's an interesting one.

Instead of just giving a true/false answer I'll try to give a bit of reasoning behind it. Sorry, but I am not one of those that can quote scripture, nor have I picked up a Bible in quite a few years. Though I try to be a follower of God (not religion) I fall way short of what is expected.

So, here goes….

1 ) JESUS IS GOD

To some Jesus is God and is worshipped as such and seem to forget about the Creator. Others, such as myself, believe he is a messenger. As far as I can tell, and when I did study the Bible, I haven't seen where it made the claim that Jesus is God. I believe Jesus was sent as a last chance for the salvation of man.

2 ) GOD IS JESUS

To me this would be false. As I stated above, though Jesus can be worshipped as a god, Jesus is not God. But, if you consider the idea that God used His energy to create all that there is, then I would have to say that since everything is made from God (His energy), then everything is a part of God. Not to be confused with the idea that we are all little gods.

3 ) ALL JEWS ARE CHRISTIANS

To this I would say true (mostly). But, though Jews do believe in Christ, this does not mean they believe Jesus was the Christ. If memory doesn't fail me, most orthodox Jews are still waiting for the Christ to appear.

4 ) ALL CHRISTIANS ARE JEWS

To this I would say false. Especially since “Christians” don't, or won't, connect themselves to where their “religion” came from. Even Jesus was a Jew, though He was not a christian. And if Christians see themselves as Jews, then wouldn't it stand to reason that they would keep the Sabbath that was ordained by God (Saturday, seventh day) instead of the one that was started by man, which is called the “Lords Day” (Sunday, first day)?

5 ) THE BIBLE IS 100% RIGHT IN EVERYTHING IT TALKS ABOUT

Some say yes, some say no. I say no. I believe there has been a bit of mythology mixed in here and there to embellish it a bit. Also I believe some was written a bit after the fact so the author of some portions may have “filled in the blanks” to things they could not remember. Can I point to anything in particular or back up what I just said? No. Just something I believe. This is not to say I would not or do not try to follow the teachings that are in it. And from what I've seen there are more facts in the Bible that can be proven than can be said of evolution.

6 ) FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT? WHAT IS THIS?

Let me see. I'm guessing that “Father” would be God, “Son” would be Jesus (or the Christ), and “Holy Spirit” would be the Power or “energy” that comes from God the Father. I have read something about a “Trinity” that predates the whole Christian era that stemmed from pagan trditions, but like I said, I haven't read the Bible or studied it in such a long time that my memory fails me. And the extensive note taking I done back then are long gone too. Should have taken better care of that stuff.

Again, thanks for the topic. I really don't have anyone to discuss anything with, and now that I'm working longer hours I really don't have a lot of time to do much of anything any more anyway. I need to try to utilize my time a heck of a lot better to get some study time in. Been slackin' lately…..again.

JWR

[JWR]

Quote:

Quote by Bruce:

Oh by the way I have a question. Is there any justification for the killing of another human being and if there is just what might that be?

I'll make this as simple as I can (I tend to be simple minded 😀 ). I see a major difference between killing and murder. Killing can be justified. Murder is not justified.

Sonik, I have studied various religions and philosophies, but the one I never really spent any time on is Islam. Seems that's the one we all have to understand/deal with now. So I won't comment on it or what kind of religion it may or may not be.

Kind of strange how things worked out for a perpetual “war” . But like I said, I'm simple minded and to me things just don't add up.

JWR

[JWR]

That's alright rattler, but after listening to Chris's deposition and the attitude and attempted manipulation of words by the questioner, we must ALWAYS think before we speak. They will try to use anything to trip us up. Even on minor things.

And although I haven't been in front of the likes of the DOJ, I have dealt with similar attitudes from the IRS and local “law” enforcement. Just stay alert and keep fighting the good fight. 😎

JWR

[JWR]

I totally agree there just ain't sumthin right about that. And Sonik, I'm not convinced it's someone using the refresh button either. I've tried that and the view number remained the same. Does make one wonder what they are up to. If I remember correctly the last time they started harrassing Hansen there was a surge in the views of certain topics, but don't recall which ones.

And I hate to do it rattler, but I must correct you on one minor point 🙂 . In your post above you said: “and the DOJ is 'just following orders' by prosecuting him”. The correct word is persecute. To prosecute would imply some sort of wrong doing. Hansen hasn't done anything wrong.

And especially now we must all choose our words wisely lest they use them against us.

Thanks for posting those mp3s so fast Hansen. I just downloaded them and am going to listen right now.

JWR

And as an after thought, I was thinking, is it really Hansen they are persecuting, or is it really the truth that is being persecuted? And since Hansen has gathered so much evidence of the truth and wrong-doing of the “system” (Not just the “income tax” but other topics as well. Scan over Family Guardian and you'll be amazed at the wide variety of info.) that he, along with other truth seekers, are being silenced at all costs?

JWR

[JWR]

Just a little thing I noticed there Sonik. Under AndyK's name it says “Ye Olde Pirate of the Fiscal Quatloosian”. Am I wrong in guessing that AndyK believes piracy is acceptable?

And under The Observer's name it says “Coordinator of the Grand Conspiracies“. What do you make of this? Grand Conspiracies? And he uses as his avatar a picture or “The Architect” from the Matrix trilogy. You know, the one that is enslaving humans? Maybe this person “conspires” to enslave humans.

Quote:

Quote by The Observer:

Perhaps we can designate Bing to be “Quatloosian for a Day”.

And a special congratulations goes to Bing! 😆 You lucky guy!

JWR

[JWR]

Thanks for the update Hansen. Been wondering how things were going with it. Glad to hear it went alright. The sad thing is that they (DOJ and IRS) don't normally play by the rules, even their own. It also appears to me the only “evidence” they have on you is in your favor and shows they are on another “witch hunt”. I guess you know this better than I would. And way to check 'em on trying to manipulate your words. Seems most that work in thle legal profession for the “government” tend to do this.

I'll be checkin' back for the mp3, though I'm almost always out here anyway.

Keep Kickin' Butt and Taking Names!

JWR

[JWR]

Hey Author #2,

You religious zealot! 😆 Interesting review of your book. I'm not too sure how to take it. The reviewer goes back and forth from hating it and you to liking the info provided (see paragraph five) and then back to hating it. I mean, at least Bensons book (The Law That Never Was vol.1) got 2 and a half stars! You didn't get any! What a crock. And did you read the top of the page where it was explained how your review was shortened?

Quote:

First: I cut the review of The Great IRS Hoax down to about half its already-edited length. I do hope I've managed to make it only slightly offensive, as opposed to the spitting, ranting abomination it was previously. I don't think I actually call for anyone's death in it any more, let alone the deaths of 87% of the global populace. If it still offends you, sorry. (If it doesn't, just imagine it's a lot more vitriolic, angry, and full of ad hominems until you're truly offended. Thank you for your cooperation.)

I guess before editing this wonderful review he must have called, not only for your death, but the deaths of “87% of the global populace”.

I noticed he likes to embelish the facts with his own spin. Examples:

1) I tried, even, to adhere to Family Guardian's challenge for this book: to read chapters two through six

As you pointed out Author #2, it's chapters 3 through 6.

2) which is the core of Family Guardian's argument that the IRS has no right to take your money

The IRS does have the right to take peoples money….if they are liable and do not pay. Most are not liable for the “income tax”.

3) Family Guardian, as you might expect from the title of the book and the opening paragraph of this review, is one of those folks who's going to stand up and tell you not to take it any more.

As far as I can tell you don't tell anyone what to do. What I believe you do say is to do your own homework and make your own decisions.

4) …and The Great IRS Hoax being boring, repetitious, and intolerable.

Only to a mind that just wants to be entertained with dragons and fairy tales.

5) Family Guardian takes amateurism and schoolyard bullying to a whole other level here,

Please insert the reviewers name in place of Author #2's.

6) and adding a disclaimer that's so transparently specious as to insult the intelligence of his readers;

Only those such as yourself tend to get their intelligence insulted, and for obvious reasons. Not those that are looking for truth.

You can easily figure the rest out. This fella makes it easy.

It's after five in the morning here and I need some sleep. And besides, this reviewer seems to me to be a tight little bound up ball of hatred, especially after wondering why no-one has tried to “assassinate” Author #2, that his comments on the Hoax and Author #2 negate themselves.

I'll be back later to “blindly follow” the “filth” that I “stupidly believe” 😀 .

JWR