BOBT12
Forum Replies Created
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Bing wrote on Oct 21 2006, 07:37 AM:Eddie Kahn, of the family Kahn, formerly of Florida, but now relaxing in even warmer/colder climate of ?????, has written some decent stuff over the years regarding the USG government's limited jurisdiction, but me thinks he made a major blunder by foolishly jumping on the Larken “I am A 861 Hero” Rose bandwagon.Sigh.
[post=”3251″][/post]Just want to add a little info I picked up recently,
Quote:Some update on Eddie Kahn extredition? From Panama. Reports have it that the FBI a month ago approached Eddie , with a request that he turn himself in. Subsequent to his refusal, the FBI issued a warrant for his arrest. The Panamanian Immigration revoked his visa using perjury as the basis. Kahn retained a Panamanian Lawyer named Sandra xxx? to assist on his behalf. He went to the Immigration to get things worked out, and there was arrested, incarcerated over night and flown out of the country at dawn. The lawyer had secured a habeas on Eddie from a Panamanian Magistrate, presented it to the Police and was told Kahn had already been deported. It's reported the FBI nor did the Police Department produce any legal paperwork in support of the action. The Panamanian lawyer is filing paperwork in the U.S to be filed in Federal Court, alleging, criminal acts committed by the FBI, including kikidnapping, falserrest and denial of due process. The Lawyer claims Mr. Kahn's paperwork was in order and he was tricked into appearing at the Immigration Offices so there he would be arrested. Kahn's wife is also being forced to leave the country of Panama The mp3 of this story and interview with Kahn lawyer can be found on -
Snipes side:
Quote:Snipes says he's 'scapegoat' in tax-fraud casePublished November 21, 2006
RELATED STORIES
Taking Names blog: Snipes' side of the story: The full e-mails
Ever since federal authorities announced that action star Wesley Snipes faces charges of conspiracy to defraud the IRS of millions of dollars, everyone from the worldwide media to the investigators themselves has been trying to get Snipes to speak out.
But because he has been filming a movie in Namibia, they've had little luck — until now.
During the weekend, Snipes sent Taking Names a lengthy e-mail in which he says he's being unfairly persecuted.
He compared the charges to a New York paternity suit filed against him last year and a 2003 foreclosure on a mansion he owned in Isleworth. The paternity suit was dismissed. But Snipes lost his $1.7 million home in the foreclosure case, even though the Jones High School alum maintained he was scammed by financial folks who took out a mortgage on the house without his knowledge.
In this case, the U.S. Attorney says Snipes tried to escape paying more than $11 million worth of income taxes through attempted improper refunds. The charges carry maximum penalties of prison time.
In my e-mails with him through the years, Snipes usually hasn't been much for back-and-forth conversation or answering my specific questions. So here's his side of the story in his own words:
Hi Scott, guess you can imagine I've been a little busy. Wow this is so crazy . . . Scott this was almost (10) ten years ago. Why are they coming with this issue now? Were the statutes of limitation running out or what? We thought all issues had been resolved. Guess not, huh? Like the situation in New York, and Florida, I know this has more to do with a few individuals with access to power, making moves (trying to move up!) and less with some alleged crime against the whole population of the United States of America. This reminds me of Rape cases where the “victim” is flipped, turned or converted into the role of victimizer, the “architect conspirator.” It appears I'm to be the scapegoat, because there's more public interest in “celebrities gone bad” than “rich people being taken advantage of.”
Being, a black male who asks questions doesn't help the situation either. But this is a serious issue, NO, a very serious issue that I am not taking lightly one bit. I will abide by the law, seek the protections the law affords me and as always seek the advice of competent council in effort to resolve this issue. I'm not running, I'm not a fugitive, despite the misrepresentations in the press . . .
. . . I have yet to tell my side of the story, but that time will come shortly. By the Will of the Most High. And boy what a story. I recall mentioning to you once before, when they were trying to steal the Florida house, it's a lot deeper than that! This is the second attempt, after the failure in New York with that paternity lie, they've come after me. . . . I've injured no one, I've violated no one's rights and (as far as I know) I owe no one. If I have violated someone, then I'm prepared to seek forgiveness and make amends. One is a artist and scholar seeking truth though diligent study and spiritual practice. Perhaps people like that have now become the enemy of the State. And trading with the enemy is dangerous business no matter who you are. In peace and in Light I only ask for your prayers Until then, stay well.
In a follow-up e-mail, Snipes directed me to a Web site that praised him for not paying income taxes under the theory that careful reading of the tax codes suggests that only foreign-based income is taxed.
Federal prosecutors in Tampa have said that idea is outlandish. And despite reports that Snipes and authorities have reached some sort of settlement, U.S. Attorney spokesman Steve Cole said Monday: “There is no deal that has been worked out. The only thing we have discussed is coming back to face the charges.”
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/column…ll=orl-news-col
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I felt that this may be of some interest:
Quote:IRS Incorrectly Issued Liens in 95 Percent Of Cases Analyzed in Audit, TIGTA SaysWritten by djahn
Wednesday, 08 November 2006
Here is a report that confirms what everbody already knew.
David Jahn
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By brad
The report, Fiscal Year 2006 Statutory Review of Compliance With
Lien Due Process Procedures (2006-30-094) is available on the Web at
http://www.ustreas.gov/tigta/oa_auditreports_fy06.html.
Monday July 3, 2006 Page G-8
SSN 1523-567X
Tax, Budget & Accounting
Tax Liens
The Internal Revenue Service did not comply with federal laws and failed to follow its own internal guidelines when issuing lien notices based on an audit of federal tax liens analyzed between September 2005 and February 2006, the Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration concluded in a report released June 30.
TIGTA said it reviewed a statistically valid sample of 150 notices of federal tax liens and determined IRS correctly mailed the lien notices to taxpayers in only seven cases, or 4.7 percent of the time.
Additionally, IRS did not inform representatives of taxpayers that liens were filed against their clients in 75 percent of the sampled cases, the audit said. In addition, undelivered lien notices were not timely controlled by IRS’s automated lien system, the TIGTA’s report, dated June 21, said.
In a June 2 response to a draft of the audit, IRS agreed to implement TIGTA recommendations to improve its lien processes and said it has made “significant procedural changes” to its lien program.
In fiscal year 2001 IRS filed 426,166 liens, in FY 2005 it filed 544,316 liens, and in FY 2005 it filed 522,887 liens, the report said.
Internal Revenue Code Section 6320, which outlines due process requirements associated with IRS issuing a Notice of Federal Tax Lien (NFTL) to a taxpayer, contains calendar deadlines by which IRS must deliver liens to taxpayers and includes what types of information must be included with the liens. The section also outlines a taxpayer’s right to a fair hearing related to an imposed lien.
‘No Improvement’ Cited
The June 21 audit was TIGTA’s eighth annual audit to determine if IRS complied with code Section 6320 and IRS internal guidelines related to NFTLs. The report said in prior years TIGTA audits found IRS had not achieved full compliance with the law and its own internal guidelines.
Despite IRS use of a new procedure of consolidated lien work at two IRS campuses in an effort to reduce the number of untimely issued notices, TIGTA said it “identified no improvement in the timeliness of mailing lien notices since our prior visit. … This year’s percentage of untimely mailed lien notices (4.67 percent) is the same as the percentage that we identified last year.”
Based on its latest findings that IRS mailed lien notices in a timely fashion only 4.67 percent of the time during its audit, TIGTA estimated in its report 23,825 lien notices prepared from Aug. 1, 2004, to July 31, 2005, could have been mailed late.
The report said undelivered mail continued to be a problem. IRS management reports for the fourth quarter of FY 2005 and the first quarter of FY 2006 showed 108,764 lien notices were returned undelivered, the audit said.
TIGTA recommended IRS’s Small Business/Self-Employed Division consult with IRS’s Office of Chief Counsel to identify any actions necessary to correct potential legal violations identified in the TIGTA report. IRS said in its June 2 response it has already completed that action.
TIGTA also recommended IRS further automate specific processes associated with the lien program, a recommendation IRS said it will implement no later than Dec. 31.
TREASURY INSPECTOR GENERAL FOR TAX ADMINISTRATION
Fiscal Year 2006 Statutory Review of Compliance With Lien Due Process Procedures
http://www.ustreas.gov/tigta/auditreports/…00630094fr.html
Audit Reports
http://www.ustreas.gov/tigta/oa_auditrepor…_noscript.shtml
LIBERTY UNIVERSITY
http://sedm.org/LibertyU/LibertyU.htm
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layed wrote on Nov 24 2006, 09:12 PM:I received a copy of my credit report that states it is a federal tax lien and it was filed in the county. But I have called the county and there is no record of it. Is there any suggestions on how to get this removed. Thanks.[post=”3336″][/post]Quote:woodwalker,Oct 19 2006, 04:35 PM
Lucille Offiler Beats IRS – Florida Judge Cancels IRS Lien
A few weeks ago I wrote to you of the case of Lucille Offiler
http://www.allbusin ess.com/governme nt/973250- 1.html . Now I send you the
final update, a copy of the actual order canceling her lien that I did
not include in the original message.
To refresh your memory, Lucille sued in Florida Circuit Court to require
the IRS to show cause why their fraudulent Notice of Federal Tax Lien
(NFTL) should not be canceled because of fraud.
http://www.irstaxat torney.com/ levy/part5- levy/6330_ %20Annotations- Judicial_ Review_of_ Appeals-Tax_ Court_1_p1. html?
True to form, the Department of Justice attempted to remove the case to
U.S. District Court. The state court judge ignored the ploy and ordered
the IRS to show cause. The IRS failed to show up. The judge issued the
order to cancel the NFTL. Now the NFTL no longer exists, and neither
does the associated lien.
Wow! This is good to hear.
Quote:One of my correspondents, Steve Ankeny , has grown to respect the IRS somuch because he believes people cannot win against the IRS with
straightforward claims of fraud and abuse. Whenever he writes to me I
feel as though someone just threw a wet blanket on the campfire to ruin
the party. He seems to love to tell how traditional arguments have no
legal standing or won't hold water in court, and I love pointing out that
only has truth in a kangaroo court. This case proves the unsoundness and
lack of courage in Steve 's understandable cynicism.
Yes, we must keep up the resistance, although it challenges our resolve.
Quote:This case joins a growing spectrum of lawsuits that beat the IRS becausethey'd rather not show up than to get their fraudulent arguments
destroyed in open court. Perhaps in time they will figure out how to
corrupt our state judges as they have federal judges, but until then, we
can enjoy wins like that of the courageous, and now lien-free, Lucille
Offiler.
N ow, I have attached her court papers, but you should go read them on
line for yourself, just to prove to yourself that they exist:
Click on the link Osceola Recorders Office, then click on “guest access”,
then in the left column, then select “document search”, then again in the
left column, select “name”, and then type in “Offiler, Lucille”, and
click on “go”. Then click on item #5, and on the next screen in the left
column, click on “image” and it will bring up the recorded document.
I was sent this thought some might want to take a look.
Stories like this help to renew ones spirit in these soul crushing times.
Well, on another site,
Quote:MLynchThe lien has been reinstated by the feds and this is no win at all unfortunately. I have it on good authority the feds removed to federal court anyway. If I can find the info on it I will post.
Also see INSTRUCTIONS: 4.21. Challenge All Liens and Levies
http://famguardian.org/TaxFreedom/Instruct…geAllLevies.htm
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We The People wrote on Inc.:IRS Enjoined For Violating
US Court of Appeals Order
Schulz v IRS Bares Its Teeth
On November 6, 2006, a federal judge issued an order enjoining, prohibiting and restricting the IRS from enforcing a summons the IRS had served on the Glens Falls National Bank and Trust Company demanding WTP Chairman Bob Schulz?s personal bank records.
On November 1st Schulz petitioned the Court to Quash the Summons on the ground that it was issued in spite of constitutional prohibitions barring retaliation by the government against those exercising Constitutionally protected Rights, including the First Amendment Right to Petition.
Schulz also charged the Summons was a brash act of insolence by IRS for violating a 2005 ruling from the Second Circuit Court of Appeals which defined the Due Process requirements for enforcing IRS administrative actions, and that IRS had acted in bad faith. Like Schulz, the bank is question is also domiciled in the Second Circuit.
On November 3rd Schulz asked the Court to order the IRS to Show Cause why the IRS should not be enjoined from enforcing the Summons until the case was finally determined, including any appeal thereof. Schulz also asked the Court to include a TRO in its order.
The District Court Order granted Schulz all the protections he requested, including ordering IRS to immediately notify the Bank by telephone that it was not to comply with the demands of the Summons.
And Schulz continues to impress!
I have personally been using Schulz v. IRS (04-0196-cv) in my refusal to obey an IRS summons to see my records. I have not signed IRS forms in almost nine years.
I hope that WTP will make the most of this current positive court Order.
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See the above post.
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Sonik Speed wrote on Oct 31 2006, 11:02 PM:::: sigh :::
nevermind… i quit?
🙁
[post=”3292″][/post]Dear Sonik,
I wish to apologize if I have offended you in any way.
Although we may have different views, and yes, we may even disagree over certain issues. However, I want you to know that I enjoy our lively debates, and I am thankful that I have an opportunity to exchange ideas with you Sonik, along with all other members.
This one is for you, Sonik Speed. Keep up the good work.
Sincerely,
Big-Bob-Tee 🙂
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Dear Super Sonik Speed,
Quote:Big-Bob-Tee, let me take a moment to respond to you…BIG-BOB-TEE: Congress and the Federal Reserve have declared the the Federal Reserve Note is LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS PUBLIC AND PRIVATE
SONIK SPEED RESPONDS: Okay – but how does this statement of yours somehow disprove what I said before: The states are free to create whatever they want. The Constitution “commands” them to make nothing but gold or silver. There is NOTHING WRONG with using Federal Reserve Notes. In fact, using Federal Reserve Notes are completely voluntary. Nobody tells you that you must use it.
Well Sonik the states are not free to create whatever they want.
BOBT12 wrote:The US Constitution gave Congress the power To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures….No State shall…coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Depts. Emphasis added. I see nothing about Congress handing their duties over to a foreign power, such as the Federal Reserve. This is a government of limited powers.Making loans are one thing, yet, forcing unbacked securities (FRNs=unlawful Money) on the people, is quite another.
Emphasis added.
The states wavied some of their rights under the Constitution.
U.S. Constitution wrote:Article VI[2] This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof, and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every State shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.
Emphasis added.
http://education.yahoo.com/reference/encyc…aqYbI4t7WNTt8wF
O.K., so lets move on…
Sonik Speed wrote:BIG-BOB-TEE: Gold has intrinsic value, paper (and pixels) have very little value. In other words, it takes much more effort to mine an once of gold or silver, than to make a paper bill, or pixel stating that it has the same value as gold, don't you think? Certain commodities will always have more value than others. Gold and silver will always trump paper. However, paper will have some intrinsic value (greater than pixels) as bathroom tissue.SONIK SPEED RESPONDS: I said this before and I will say it again. Money is Money. Gold is gold. Silver is silver. What really matters is – is the conclusion, that is, the food that is placed on the table feeding an average family of 4. The real question is this: Do people have a home and can they buy food and eat the food the Almighty Creator has given them. Do people have a warm home to stay in when it is 10 below. Does a mother and father have clothing to keep their children warm in a cold winter morning!
KEEP IT SIMPLE! Who cares whether Gold is your currency or FRN's. I do not care what they have, for as long as I get the basic necessities of life that God has given me. Money must exist. It does not matter if its Gold or FRNs. Both things get to the same conclusion: Both are purchasing instruments! Thats it! Thats all that matters! This is one thing I thing THE MAJORITY of the Freedom Movement just does not see. Who cares whether it is gold or FRNs!
Ask pre Nazi Germany, who cares; ask the New England colonies in the 1600s, who cares; and ask the holders of the Continental dollar, who cares? When the FRN is inflated away we will see who cares. (Fiat Money+Time=Disaster)
Sonik Speed wrote:BIG-BOB-TEE: I disagree! Thousands of years of history suggest otherwise. Further, this is what the Constitution, and fair dealing , demands.SONIK SPEED RESPONDS: Who cares about thousands of years of history! It's that nonsense of “thousands of years of history” that has lead to the genesis of the United States of America. Our founders were sick of the thousands of years. The Constitution demands that no state can coin money or emit bills of credit or make anything but gold and silver. This obligation is still there, but ALL of the states voluntarily choose not to execute such right they are entitled to. Instead, they choose to submit “applications” (notice how I did not say CONTRACTS) to the Federal Reserve Board to become “qualified members” of the Federal Reserve System.
And by doing so they are ignoring thousands of years of history! Thus, the nation is falling into error. Did you ever hear that history repeats itself?
Sonik Speed wrote:Let me get into this a little more…Again – I am in agreement with you that Gold and Silver is something that must be used to pay for debts. But the matter is: What happens when states choose to not execute this provision in the Constitution?
[…]
That's all that it is! Membership! It's voluntary association. Therefore, what I am trying to show here is that there is NOTHING WRONG AND NOTHING UNCONSTITUTIONAL with what the Federal Government is doing. It is all voluntary association with the Federal Government. The states are granted the power to “withdraw” if they wanted to, and execute the rights that are granted to them under the Constitution, that is, to make gold and silver. But it is the states to blame and NOT the Federal Government, because the states have volunteered themselves.
The state do not have a lawful choice in the matter, they are barred from this action by the U.S. Constitution (as cited above). Thus, the states and the federal government are Unconstitutional whores and pimps! 😮
Were we not warned about this happening long ago?
Washington's Farewell Address 1796
http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/washing.htm
Sonik Speed wrote:The key word is – may. The Federal Government is not holding a gun to their head by saying that STATES MUST JOIN A FEDERAL SYSTEM! Rather, the Federal Government simply offers to all state banks an “application” to join the Federal Reserve system. That's it! Just a mere application! To prove this, consider the language that is used in the supreme Court Eccles v. Peoples Bank of Lakewood Village, California [333 US 426]Dear Sonik, please remember that the supreme court has no power to lawfully change the Constitution, in fact, they are mere creatures of the Constitution, how can they rightfully overrule their master?
Sonik Speed wrote:Therefore in sum, your conclusion that the Federal Reserve Act is void because it is unConstitutional is completely without merit. The Federal Reserve Act is PERFECTLY CONSTITUTIONAL! On a side note, Bob Schulz is dead wrong on challenging the constitutionality of the Federal Reserve system in his Right To Petition Class Action lawsuit. DEAD WRONG!I disagree!
And Andrew Jackson and Thomas Jefferson disagreed with the central bank concept:
Quote:Opposition to the National BankMain article: Second Bank of the United States
As president, Jackson worked to take away the federal charter of the Second Bank of the United States (it would continue to exist as a state bank). The second Bank had been authorized, during James Madison's tenure in 1816, for a 20 year period. Jackson opposed the national bank concept on ideological grounds. In Jackson's veto message (written by George Bancroft), the bank needed to be abolished because:
Democratic cartoon shows Jackson fighting the monster Bank
it was unconstitutional
it concentrated an excessive amount of the nation's financial strength into a single institution
it exposed the government to control by “foreign interests”
it served mainly to make the rich richer
it exercised too much control over members of the Congress
it favored Northeastern states over Southern and Western states
Jackson followed Jefferson as a supporter of the ideal of an “agricultural republic” and felt the bank improved the fortunes of an “elite circle” of commercial and industrial entrepreneurs at the expense of farmers and laborers. After a titanic struggle, Jackson succeeded in destroying the bank by vetoing its 1832 re-charter by Congress and by withdrawing U.S. funds in 1833.
Emphasis added.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Jackson
Sonik Speed wrote:Anyway… moving on…SONIK SPEED SAYS: The Federal Reserve Act is constitutional. You still need a central bank.
BIG-BOB-TEE: I strongly disagree! The nation has done quite well after Andrew (old hickory) Jackson killed the central bank in the late 1830s. The nation didn't fall into utter chaos! In fact, the nation prospered without an inflated economy for 70 plus years. The utter chaos occurred during the Great Depression at which time the central bank was firmly established.
SONIK SPEED: I am not well-versed as to how our nation was from an “central bank studies” point of view during the 70 year period you speak. Therefore I cannot accept it at face value. Do you have something to share that would indicate that our nation was prosperous during those years?
Perhaps you might become well-versed with this history, then we can better discuss the issues raised here, don't you agree? 😉
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Sonik Speed wrote on Oct 26 2006, 10:13 PM:BOBT SAID: The issue is that we should use just weights or measures, as the Almighty, and the Constitution, has commanded. Fiat (unbacked) money is always inflated, which steals value from those holding the currency. Stealing is not something that is good for any individual or nation. Over time, it brings on the ills similar to what “Professor” Bing has outlined in the earlier post.
SONIK SPEED RESPONDS: BOBT, The states are free to create whatever they want. The Constitution “commands” them to make nothing but gold or silver. There is NOTHING WRONG with using Federal Reserve Notes. In fact, using Federal Reserve Notes are completely voluntary. Nobody tells you that you must use it.
[post=”3276″][/post]Yes, the the Congress and the Federal Reserve have declared the the Federal Reserve Note is LEGAL TENDER FOR ALL DEBTS PUBLIC AND PRIVATE . Emphasis added.
Sonik Speed wrote:The problem is “utilitarian”, that is, the greater people use it, which is why one “sovereign” might have a problem associating with others in public. But get a public to use what you use and explain to them the REASONING, then watch how the “voluntary” Federal Reserve System falls. This is Norfed's objective.I ask you “Big” BOB 😉 – what difference does it make whether money is backed or not? Please explain this to me your reasoning…
Gold has intrinsic value, paper (and pixels) have very little value. In other words, it takes much more effort to mine an once of gold or silver, than to make a paper bill, or pixel stating that it has the same value as gold, don't you think? Certain commodities will always have more value than others. Gold and silver will always trump paper. However, paper will have some intrinsic value (greater than pixels) as bathroom tissue.
‘Sonik wrote:I would also add that ASSUMING if one day all of the people in the United States of America were to wake up and have a Gold currency’ date=’ then I submit to you – the system WILL NOT WORK! Why? Let W. Randolph Burgess answer this… Mr. Burgess take it away…[/color’]W. RANDOLPH BURGESS SAID (In the US News & World Report): Yes Sonik Speed thank you for the lovely introduction. Anyway, here is what was exchanged:
Quote:Q – Is any consideration being given to a gold standard?A – Well. We've been on a type of gold standard since January of 1934, when we adopted the price of $35 per ounce of gold.
Q – Then I should put it another way, and say a redeemable currency.
A – Yes. Well, we look at it once in a while, but we don't think we are ready for it
Q – What do we have to do to get ready?
A – The first thing is to do is to get our financial affairs really in order. Secondly, we ought to get the major currencies of the world convertible, because you can't make the gold standard work with just one country. We are far enough away from licking those two things so we'd better not speculate as to what we're going to do the year after next.
I disagree! Thousands of years of history suggest otherwise. Further, this is what the Constitution, and fair dealing , demands.
Sonik Speed wrote:E-Z Ehud gave his view on what money should be and through in a few cute suggestions. I sense however that from his writings that he really does not care what money is on (then again my interpretation can be way off). However he makes a few assertions claiming the following:Quote:1. The Federal Reserve Act of 1913 is void, indeed, for the reason indicated.Sir, the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 is NOT void. It is a law passed by Congress and you can go all along claiming that it is void. The bottom line is – it is not, unless you can prove to me that the Federal Reserve Act was “illegally” passed through Congress
The Act is void because it is unConstitutional! I have already provided the citation.
Sonik Speed wrote:(compare: The Law That Never Was – William J. Benson). Even Federal Reserve scholar G. Edward Griffin would agree that it is a law that needs to be repealed [See The Creature from Jekyll Island].Sonik Speed wrote:A “central” bank is a neccessity (and Yes I know it's communistic) but without some sort of central authority, there would be utter chaos.
Emphasis added.
I strongly disagree! The nation has done quite well after Andrew (old hickory) Jackson killed the central bank in the late 1830s. The nation didn't fall into utter chaos! In fact, the nation prospered without an inflated economy for 70 plus years. The utter chaos occurred during the Great Depression at which time the central bank was firmly established.
Sonik Speed wrote:I do agree that this “central authority” should be a reflection of God, and not gods. Mankind is not perfect. No matter what system you choose, someone is going to screw up! Look what happened to Adam and Eve – did they not sin in heaven? James Madison summed it up best in Federalist Paper #51.Quote:The interest of the man must be connected with the constitutional rights of the place. It may be a reflection on human nature, that such devices should be necessary to control the abuses of government. But what is government itself, but the greatest of all reflections on human nature? If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself. A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions.The central banks are the problem, not the solution.
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Bing wrote on Oct 27 2006, 11:03 AM:Sonik, if one were to go back and read the exchanges between Author and AndyK, I seem to recall that Andy K stipulated, point blank, that he would write and post a rebuttal to the Trade or Business Scam treatise.
As I recall, Author immediately accepted AndyK's proffer, and there was some general discussion about the suggested due date. And I also seem to recall that AndyK may have asked for some additional time to craft his rebuttal.
I don't recall what Forums these exchanges occurred in, or where the solemn promise made by AndyK, IRS attorney, is contained, but I am sure they are easy enough to locate for anyone that might be interested in seeing first hand, what the IRS lawyer a/k/a “AndyK”, promised he said he would do, and then he failed to honor his word and follow through.
Thus, based on the facts, one can certainly conclude that AndyK lied to us.
And this has nothing to do with AndyK's apparent intellectual obtuseness with respect to his pretending to not understand the Jurisdictional thesis.
Based on AndyK's posts both here and at Q-loser Land, the feeble manner in which he attempts to argue, and certain other tells, I would conclude that he is just a young kid, probably around 26 – 32 years of age. I suspect too that he let his mouth outpace his brain when he boldly promised he would rebut the Trade or Business treatise, and I am willing to bet that when he made that promise to us, he had not even read the darn thing yet.
In any case, no doubt a more senior IRS attorney felt it necessary to have sit down with young AndyK and likely instructed AndyK to not even attempt to rebut the Trade or Business Scam pamphlet, lest he open up a pandora's box and bring much unwanted attention to one of the IRS's achilles heals.
Bing
[post=”3277″][/post]Bingo! I think you are right on point.
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Sonik Speed wrote on Oct 24 2006, 08:58 PM:Where is my good'ol friend Andy “Private Eye” Kay ?
Oh wait… I remember…
HE'S BANNED FROM THIS WEBSITE!
[post=”3268″][/post]Whoops… 😮 😮
Bing wrote:Finally, I am absolutely amazed that this thread has in excess of 14,000 hits. Truly, that is a FG Forum record.Yes, I am amazed also. The Feds seem to run through here when they are likely preparing to do a hatchet job.
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Sonik Speed wrote on Oct 22 2006, 01:53 AM:I would also add that Money is Money. Gold is gold. Silver is silver. What really matters is – is the conclusion, that is, the food that is placed on the table feeding an average family of 4.
The real question is this: Do people have a home and can they buy food and eat the food the Almighty Creator has given them.
In studying TRUE Judaism, TRUE Christianity and TRUE Islam, to my knowledge, God has permited and encouraged commerce, but has forbidden usury. Commerce is fine, but usury is a serious sin with the aforementioned faiths.
In sum, it really does not matter if you have a gold system or not.
[post=”3261″][/post]The issue is that we should use just weights or measures, as the Almighty, and the Constitution, has commanded. Fiat (unbacked) money is always inflated, which steals value from those holding the currency. Stealing is not something that is good for any individual or nation. Over time, it brings on the ills similar to what “Professor” Bing has outlined in the earlier post.
rottweiler wrote:Do you believe the banksters can defeat God? He commands us to use just weights or measures. You don't want to piss him off any more than you already have. God is way too powerful for banksters. He lets things get out of whack for awhile and then whammo, upside your head! These things run in cycles and we are in a commodities bull market now. Think “things” now when you invest. Oil, wheat, corn, honey, land, copper, steel, etc. Just pick one, just remember silver may be the the best of all. Put your money on God and you can not lose.Emphasis added.
BOBT12 wrote:Quote:Originally posted by rattler14That's all fair and well, but it's still lost 97% of it's buying power in a about as many years. If i'm 24 now, by the time i retire, any money saved now would be worth spit in tomorrow's world.Plus, it COULD remain strong, but do you want to put your retirement on the line when the FED is involved? I wish no harm upon you, but good luck if you or anyone you know wants to stick with dollars.
Dear rattler14, I think that we are on the same page, or at least in the same chapter, regarding the issue of all fiat currency, including Federal Reserve Notes (FRNs). I think that if you look at the links in my earlier post, it is clear that FRNs are headed for major problems, probably sooner, rather than later. However, I acknowledge that there may be a range of opinions on this issue, beyond what you or I may think. No, I agree with you, I don?t consider it wise to put ones retirement savings into FRNs, or any fiat currency. Yet, my point is that regardless of which of the above outcomes materialize, this is a good time to invest/diversify into hard assets, such as silver or gold, etc.
Further, I want to be clear, I feel that the only reason that fiat currency is used, over a long period, is to inflate the currency. Thus, steal from those who hold the currency. The history of fiat currency seems to bare this fact out. :ph34r:
http://famguardian.org/forums/index.php?sh…pic=396&hl=gold
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As the old saying goes, when it rains, it pours.
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reb wrote on Oct 21 2006, 05:33 PM:Sonik Speed has written:
“The Federal Reserve System is COMPLETELY a legal forum of quasi-organization. It was LEGALLY created by a corrupted, super-rich, power-hungry Congressmen in the early part of the 20th Century. Congress indeed has the power to CREATE private or non-private organizations giving them authority over anything that is within the jurisdictional bounds of Article 1, Section 8 or throughout the entire union by relying solely upon the “general welfare” clause of the Constitution.”
Let us reflect a bit on this.
The operation of the Fed is for every $ of deficit spending by Congress, the Fed will receive a Bill, Bond, or Note in the amount of $ for which the Fed will honor checks drawn on the checking accounts of the US up to the amount of $.
Congress agrees to pay back to the Fed $ upon the expiration date plus interest over the time span.
It must be noted the amount of money created on the accounting books of the Fed is $ (principle) but the amount to be repaid is $ plus interest. Every $ in circulation is created by a $ of principle.? The interest does not exist.? The only way it can be achieved is to issue more debt, but that means more interest will be due.? The interest on the national debt grows exponentially but cannot be paid.? If all the $ in the world were used to purchase Bills, Bonds, and Notes, all the $ would be in the vaults of the Fed and a debt in the amount of all the interest since 1913, compounded, would still be due the Fed.
It is an impossibility to repay the National Debt.? It is a fraudulent Ponzi scheme.
Is it not a fundamental premise of law that a contract based upon fraud is void from its inception ???
Reb
[post=”3254″][/post]Emphasis added.
Er..that would be yes!
Further, the use of the general welfare clause (see Madison's notes of the Constitutional Convention) is being used in a fraudulent manner.
BOBT12 wrote:The general welfare text was for safety of the nation, such as national defense. Read Madison's notes regarding the Constitutional Convention (1787) for more information.In any event, where does any document indicate that the government has a right or duty to force people (any people) into any program that they do not wish to join?
Quote:“If Congress can do whatever in their discretion can be done by money, and will promote the General Welfare, the Government is no longer a limited one, possessing enumerated powers, but an indefinite one, subject to particular exceptions.” James MadisonThe US Constitution gave Congress the power To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures….No State shall…coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Depts. Emphasis added. I see nothing about Congress handing their duties over to a foreign power, such as the Federal Reserve. This is a government of limited powers.
Making loans are one thing, yet, forcing unbacked securities (FRNs=unlawful Money) on the people, is quite another.
Welcome to the forum reb.
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woodwalker wrote on Oct 19 2006, 04:35 PM:Lucille Offiler Beats IRS – Florida Judge Cancels IRS Lien
A few weeks ago I wrote to you of the case of Lucille Offiler
http://www.allbusin ess.com/governme nt/973250- 1.html . Now I send you the
final update, a copy of the actual order canceling her lien that I did
not include in the original message.
To refresh your memory, Lucille sued in Florida Circuit Court to require
the IRS to show cause why their fraudulent Notice of Federal Tax Lien
(NFTL) should not be canceled because of fraud.
http://www.irstaxat torney.com/ levy/part5- levy/6330_ %20Annotations- Judicial_ Review_of_ Appeals-Tax_ Court_1_p1. html?
True to form, the Department of Justice attempted to remove the case to
U.S. District Court. The state court judge ignored the ploy and ordered
the IRS to show cause. The IRS failed to show up. The judge issued the
order to cancel the NFTL. Now the NFTL no longer exists, and neither
does the associated lien.
Wow! This is good to hear.
Quote:One of my correspondents, Steve Ankeny , has grown to respect the IRS somuch because he believes people cannot win against the IRS with
straightforward claims of fraud and abuse. Whenever he writes to me I
feel as though someone just threw a wet blanket on the campfire to ruin
the party. He seems to love to tell how traditional arguments have no
legal standing or won't hold water in court, and I love pointing out that
only has truth in a kangaroo court. This case proves the unsoundness and
lack of courage in Steve 's understandable cynicism.
Yes, we must keep up the resistance, although it challenges our resolve.
Quote:This case joins a growing spectrum of lawsuits that beat the IRS becausethey'd rather not show up than to get their fraudulent arguments
destroyed in open court. Perhaps in time they will figure out how to
corrupt our state judges as they have federal judges, but until then, we
can enjoy wins like that of the courageous, and now lien-free, Lucille
Offiler.
N ow, I have attached her court papers, but you should go read them on
line for yourself, just to prove to yourself that they exist:
Click on the link Osceola Recorders Office, then click on “guest access”,
then in the left column, then select “document search”, then again in the
left column, select “name”, and then type in “Offiler, Lucille”, and
click on “go”. Then click on item #5, and on the next screen in the left
column, click on “image” and it will bring up the recorded document.
I was sent this thought some might want to take a look.
[post=”3242″][/post]Stories like this help to renew ones spirit in these soul crushing times.
Well on the other hand…
MLynch wrote:The lien has been reinstated by the feds and this is no win at all unfortunately. I have it on good authority the feds removed to federal court anyway. If I can find the info on it I will post.http://www.suijuris.net/forum/success-stor…th-circuit.html