Fiddo
Forum Replies Created
Latest news, well with a short email to the CEO of the company. They referred me to someone that was a top level person. I have talked to them over the phone about why I want to control my own withholding, why I want to provide alternative documents (so I don't have to keep submitting new forms every year) and that with this agreement, anything and everything the company gets regarding me gets forwarded to me with no action taken unless there is a proper court order. I expressed the reason for that being that I was not going to be doing my own withholding only to have someone uninformed changed things because of some non-authoritive letter.
I said that by doing things with way it fully protects the company because if the irs has a problem with my pay/withholding they will have to come to me directly. Then I can respond to their “concerns”…
Right now it's in the process of them verifying my information and sources, they are just a little unsure because they feel most people would want them to do all the paperwork. I just seem to be the first person that wants to have control over WHAT IS LEGALLY MINE to control. Namely the enumeration coming to me for my time and efforts… I will keep you posted if I get this control…
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Yes, I agree with your evaluation. I was once talking to an older brother of mine and mentioned how the PAII had passed and how one congressman wrote that thing was opressive. All my brother could say was “don't worry about it, everything will be okay”…
He has little concern about the world around him so long as he can work, eat and live. To me that attitude is one shared by the many “sheeple” that don't concern themselves about the machines making noise in the slaughter house. They just don't concern themselves that when some of those they know go into the building they don't seem to come out. I guess they believe they are living a better life inside and not out in the field…
I once read an article about something I believe the 1954 irs commissioner said, how the feds should just send everyone a copy of the communist manefesto so people would know why they are paying.
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Yes, Americans are getting weaker minded more and more. Just watch the new ads that are on TV for the various tax preparers or software programs where “they do all the work for the person” and they just put in the numbers. With one service you can scratch your card and win up to double your federal refund..
Now it's a contest to see if you will win the “lotto” and get a refund. They are making it so there is no section or place where a person can ask questions or learn the truth. I change the channel when I see such stupid things come on. I guess for the “sheeple” with the additions of bright green squares and red, white and blue checkmarks it's all about flash and the possibility of winning?
I wonder if they even think for a moment “how can they win something when it's their money to begin with?” That's like buying your own gift, wrapping it up and being surprised when you open it in later at the party.
And yes, people don't want to know the truth only because unlike myself and most who visit here, we are willing to stand and cast off of chains…
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Thanks rattler14,
As of this writting I have sent information to a person working with me, I checked today by email to see if they had gotten them and had any questions. I said that I am more than willing to take as much time as it takes to educate people.
As with your one line
Quote:ignorance is blissIt remindes me of the movie the matrix, where the guy is talking to the agent and eating the steak. He says ” I know this steak doesn't exist, but the matrix is telling my brain that it is tender and juicy and delicous, “ignorance is bliss”…
Too many people live in the matrix and keep taking the Blue Pill….
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Sounds like a good idea to me, I would make sure to get a complete copy of the lien on file so that i have everything they have. maybe even get a statement that says that the copy I have is complete and there are no other documents with it. That way they cannot sneak in a document after the fact and say “see, we have the authority letter right here… ” (which imho would be bogus anyways)
“sic'em danno”…
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Good Job! You beat me to the posting but I am just glad it has been posted for all to see….
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Okay, now I am not a lawyer so this IS NOT legal advice but rather my opinion. Since you have already locked yourself inside the jail, if I was doing this action and felt my case was in the wrong venue. I would file a motion to have my case moved to a district court that could better hear my claims of injury upon me. The TC is not some place I would go to because I am outside it's jurisdiction. If I submitted a case to them then it clearly makes the statement they have said jurisdiction (since that is the only way a “taxpayer” can submit a case).
For myself, I would motion that the case cannot be properly heard because the court is not in a position to grant relief and that the issue was wrongfully presented to the court before finding out that they do not have the correct venue, jurisdiction. I would make my argument more one of personal injury and not a tax issue because injury is what is being caused by their lien.
I would also not sign anything regardless of what they say and just move my case. I would look into their rules about moving my case and see which one(s) I could invoke because of my injury and further harm.
IMHO .. 😕
Thanks Bing,
I am trying to do just that. Inform them that my statement is just as effective as a W-4 except that unlike an “exempt W-4” that they would want me to file, it does not expire every Feb. 15. The other thing that is important to teach them is that social security and medicare are voluntary programs for ME! If I choose to no longer want to be enrolled in them then that is what I want.
I have been successful in contacting my company's CEO and he gave me a person who I believe is “at the top”, the good thing is the person even contacted me because I guess they had been told by the CEO to see how they could help.
I have explained in simple terms, not quoting any laws, not pasting in any sections of code. I explained that I had done research and had information that gives me the right to terminate my withholding agreement. The answers I got from people in the company even told me that but then it seems they became confused because they claimed after terminating the one form, that I would have to submit another. To me that is change, not withdrawal.
I also stated that I have sources that can verify my information but because people don't want to know (or don't care) or are vane. That my info and sources gets dismissed without a second thought. I expressed how if I thought for a moment that what I was trying to do was illegal or something I could not do. I would have stopped a long time ago since the negative results would not be something I would want.
I also stated that I have pretty much been pressured into silence because of this issue because the people that are “just above me” don't care and would prefer me to shut up. I offered a solution that would allow both the company and me to get what we want, for me it's all my pay minus benefits I enrolled for. For them it's complete protection because they would have a signed statement on file that pretty much says that I do everything myself, come talk to me.
Plus with this coming from someone now at the top, maybe someone at the bottom will be quiet and just let me do this, since legally I can! I gave them my home email and tel. number so they can call me and talk directly to me. Hopefully since this is something coming from the direction of the CEO that I will get better results.
I will keep you posted…
Plus for some reason when a person says things like “thankyou for your concern” and then hangs up the phone on them, they believe thats' rude somehow? 😮
Update…
Well, seems asking a person's opinion about answers is not a good thing. I will have a meeting later today where they will “try to get my side of it” as to why I keep asking different people the same questions?
Even though I have a legal right to ask questions, it seems I cannot ask ones that the company feels it has already provided an answer to. Even though those answers are wrong or contradictory.
One example of such is where they tell me that “yes I can withdraw my W-4” and then “you have to supply a new one if you do”. To me that makes no sense, why would a person withdraw the form and then resubmit it? That would pretty much amount to “change” not “withdrawl”.
So, today I will meet and they will ask me why I keep asking, I only started again because according to company policy they require that I have a form on file. But when they get any kind of letter from the irs, they void my form requiring me to submit a new one. Only they don't tell me that until after the fact when I see things have changed and try to change them back. Try to comply with their requirements to keep a valid form on file!
So, if I have a lot of free time here in the neat future I guess it means more online game play time. I just dislike the job hunting process… 🙁
Then there would also be the lawyers and legal actions… seems this company makes more than just microchips.
Thanks all for the words of encouragement, I have by this time actually written a nice email to the company CEO. Most people would be like “OMG!! Your toast!” but I did not mention what the subject was only that I had done research, asked if I could do something that was completely legal (but not politically correct) that would have no affect what so ever on the company (IMHO). So, if the CEO responds and asks to know more I will provide. I have to do it that way because it seems as Rattler14 said “people get upset”.
As for the quotes, thanks and I believe the last part of your quote of:
Quote:“First God created idiots, this was for practice. Then he made congress.”The last part was “But then I repeat myself” .. also, i believe by Mark Twain…
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I feel much the same way as you do, I have repeatedly ask within my company for a chance to sit down with someone, to show them what I had (facts) that support my position. All I get are evasions and threats. People have no interest in learning something if their jobs are based on it. (again, sorry Author #2) My company will only accept a W-4 from me (no other form) now they have informed me that the only manner I can use to stop withholding is to file an exempt W-4 (again, sorry Author #2). So I am like, “okay, if I submit an exempt W-4 as you ask, can I get any and all letters/contact from the irs sent to me directly, so that I can respond with no action taken by the company?” (seems fair)
Well, seems trying to comply and set limits is not possible, the company claimed that they can't send me copies of irs letters they might get about me because “it's not policy”. When the state locked me in at single w/ 3, I asked to see the court order that was making that change. They said they never really got a court order but just always did whatever the letters said without question. The letter I got and the letter the company got are very differant, mine “advises me” while the company letter “demands” them to change my withholding and not allow any increase but only a decrease. Payroll sent me a copy of the letter.
I asked of the corporation about why people when they request a face to face meeting to present facts supporting their position that they get either phone calls or emails that don't really answer the question but just pretty much say that they do things a certain way and that's how they'll stay. plus being just a lowly factory worker I am just a number so “make too much noise and you get replaced”.
One person even wrote to me saying the IRC sec. 6151 required payments with a return and that a person could not avoid taxes or not have withholding taken. (so then what is an exempt W-4 doing?) Well, seems no one likes to be asked for their opinions when they feel that since I got an answer (doesn't matter how correct it is) that I should just “shut up and go away”.
A person from the company's HR called me but I had already responded to the email they were calling about. So when I got on the phone I told him “I have already responded, thank you for your concern” and then hung up. I was not in the mood to listen to some boob that prefers to remain ignorant threaten me about my job. If I am still here, then I am stuck at single w/ 3 for state and single w/ 8 for federal. if not, maybe the next company will be more open minded and I will start out with Family Guardian Fellowship's material from the word go.
If anyone wants copies of the various answers I have gotten from trying to present my facts just let me know and I will send them to you, not sure if Author #2 would want them posted.
This is section 6151 ICR 26
Update,
Recently as I am stuck with the methods available to me, I decided to change my w-4 (sorry Author #2 but they won't accept anything else) and I got a email back that they can change my federal settings but not the state (OR) since I am “locked in”, then they sent me a copy of the letter they got from the state.
I myself got a similar letter but mine was slightly different in that it was more general. With mine the letter said that “it had been determined” but with the letter my employer got it said “I have Determined” (yes, the D was capital) and the statement was also in bold print like they were issuing a command or order. It seems that the person who wrote the letter has the belief that they have some unanounced authority. When I told my payroll about the lack of authority, they said that they “understood my concerns” but that I would have to call/contact the thugs to effect a change!
I politely responded that contacting the irs was a waste of time since they did not control my paycheck, the people working in this company's payroll did. As I am outside the jurisdiction and venue of the irs, I cannot submit a petition or other type paper to the tax court. Plus the tax court cannot litigate “employment tax” issues, to ask them to rule would force them to deny the case because it's easy for them to say “no, next case”.
The benefit (if you can call it that) was that the copy they sent me had the name of the person who the irs contacted within the company informing them to “lock me in” so, clearly since it is not anyone I had dealt with before. I appear to have found someone in the company that could well be above the low level people I have had to deal with who have been stonewalling me. Since people in this company seem trained not to allow things to be moved up the chain, it's easier for someone with no authority to just tell me “go away”.
I am attempting make polite small talk atm to see if i can at least get them to respond to me, I have not raised the tax issue but just asked more general questions to judge their response, I will keep everyone posted…
<_<
Thanks Bing,
I sometimes think too much and it is good there are people like yourself to help put people like me back on track.
Job well done..
It should be interesting, esp' when the judge asked about the irs putting a disclaimer on the form. The disclaimer indicating that if the person chose to ignore the form that they were free to do so unless the thugs filed court actions later. Then I would just file a motion for verification of jurisdication/motion to quash, since I am not a taxpayer as it's defined in their code the irc does not apply to me so any summons is mute..
Well, unfortunately I am still having money taken where I work. Since the thugs have spoken and the company I work for cares more about image than people, even providing them with all the knowledge in Family Guardian Fellowship's book and they completely ignore it and if I persist they make “threats” about written warnings or further possible actions since they see my point of view as more political or in the words of the dumb tax advocate “someone trying a scam”.
So, as from my previous post I am unfortunately still being “robbed”, only I am no longer sending in a confession about something that I know would be incorrect, since I do not earn “taxable income” as defined in the code.
I will do the SEDM letter w/ RR green card and let you all know if I hear anything further. My IMF has shown for the past 3 years “0” (zero) tax due for each year, then entries after where they put in the numbers from past returns (ones that I submitted not knowing why) showing adjustments for “claiming taxable income recieved, amount of tax assessed and then my payment for the amount due”
What a racket!!
Interesting thing is, my brother who also agrees with me has gotten a letter as well, will check and see if they are both the same form. He's in the iraq mess so reponding to mail might take longer, plus his form was forwarded to my parents home where they became alarmed (since we have not wasted time trying to educate them, they are too old to want to accept truth) and they (parents) hope that he has all his “tax info” to be able to “submit a return” (confession).
